Sun 12/19/1999

From "The Moderator Thanks You"

Recollections '99 -- share with us your favorite aspect or nature or moment or person or feature

of the Groop. What better way to end the year than by expressing what we like about our Groop

here's the chance for ALL of you to participate --- let's hear from all of you who we NEVER

hear from (we ALL must have something we like about Groop or we wouldn't allow it to be

dumped in our mailbox everyday).

~~~~~~~~~

Sunday December 19, 1999

Steve Austin writes:

Frenchin!!

I appreciate all the help I got trying to learn to French long distance. The thing I like about

Groop is that there isn't any guarding of secrets because the competition might get one up

on you. We share everything we know here and everybody here is an equal. Whether you

know a lot or whether you only know a little, your opinion is welcome, your participation is

welcome, and no one is going to ridicule you if you happen to be wrong, just correct you.

I'd like to see what everybody looks like. Don't let the devastating handsomeness of my

picture keep you from sending in yours, we all can't be beautiful, you know. We won't

snicker too much, Tony. Honest! Just comb your hair, it won't hurt you, and dim the light

a little, perhaps. It'll come out fine.

I'd like to hear from the Groopsters who aren't talking much so we can get to know you better.

You really don't have to come up with any clever questions or answers in order to participate.

Nobody will put you down. You don't have to be afraid of showing what you don't know or letting

out that you're part time or that you might not have a shop. A shop is where you work. It doesn't

have to be fancy so don't feel inferior, there's no need. We all had to start someplace, nobody's

going to turn you in or kick you out.

I'm especially surprised and pleased that we have so many lady Groopsters in this business.

Not only are they our equals, but some of them know a lot more than I do and I respect them

and appreciate their contributions and I hope that doesn't sound chauvinistic , it isn't meant to.

I just mean that you have an equal standing with us guys and that's the way it should be.

Alan, I don't know how you find the time to keep Groop going, but I'm glad you started it and

I'm glad you've been able to keep up with the day to day operation of it. For anybody new who

doesn't know, Alan started this on his personal computer. He planned it all out, implemented it,

and has kept it going on his own time. He isn't just sitting on his duff all day in front of his computer

doing Groop. He's just like all the rest of us. He's running a full time business and earning a living.

He does this in his spare time and I know how much work is going on behind the scenes that

nobody knows about, I do a little bit of it myself, everyday, to help him out. So, I know from the little

I do, how much time it takes and believe me, Alan is not being over paid with these dues.

But like he's said, more than once, it's not about money with him, he's doing it for all of us.

The dues pays for the mailing service he has to use everyday to send out what, 20 e-mails to

145 people per day? 2900 e-mails a day? We've had as many as 300 members at times.

Not only that, but Alan gets a lot of personal e-mail everyday from us, that we aren't aware of.

Oh, did I mention that Alan is married and has a life, :)? I don't know how, but he has one.

So thanks for all the hard work and time you put in everyday, BRO, we appreciate it.

Hopefully, we'll all show you we appreciate it by doing what you've asked and sending in a

snippet of a picture. I've got some better pictures of me, if you'd like to dress up the page a little.

Steve Austin

~~~~~~~~~

Bruce Chadima writes:

Inasmuch as this groop has the knowledge of a compiled version of the Britannica world book

encyclopedia of refinishing and related issues, I can not find it in my mind or heart to pick one

favorite issue. All I can say is if you choose not to be a member of this group, you are missing

out on the most vast supply of industry related information you can possibly get.

Hats off and a formal bow to Alan for creating it, and the same for all the highly skilled craftsmen

and craftswomen that help keep it afloat and filled with the information of a lifetime.

Bruce C

~~~~~~~~~~

Mark Potter writes:

Dear Groop -

To be able to share problems / experiences / insights / nightmares / triumphs / failures /

discoveries / simple matters / complex concerns, with people with similar interests has GOT

to be the very best attribute of the internet, at least for me.

I have been lamenting for years how difficult it is to find good solid information about the finishing

products we use. Some suppliers do a reasonable job, but others are seemingly totally disinterested,

ignorant, or both. Rarely (never) do I get the feeling that they are out there actually using the stuff!

Lots of things look good on paper, but the real world tells its own tale, eh?

In this groop, the information is based on shop experience.

THAT'S the kind of information you can trust....

It is phenomenal to me the information that is "at our grasp" within this groop. What to buy,

where to get it, how to use it, and why. What else is there? Being a member of a piano

technician's forum, I can also tell you that this groop gets along incredibly well together.

We are indeed fortunate to be a part of something functioning so well, without having even

met one another. The spirit of "helping out" is a contagious one, it seems.

I consider myself incredibly fortunate to have stumbled onto this forum. I only spend a small

portion of my working time actually on finish work, but when I do, I demand of myself that the

finished product be elegant. In my mind, there is no other way to approach pianos. Because

the majority of my quests are non-finishing piano problems, it is especially important to be able

to get good information on finishing when I need it. I would agree with what Alan said, I have

perhaps learned more in the last 6 months than in the previous many years. Undoubtedly, there

are many more discoveries to behold.

Thank you groop, and thank you Alan!

Mark Potter

~~~~~~~~~

FrankLoL writes:

Groop,

I want to thank everyone for the support ever since I signed on early this year. The first answer

from the "Groop", netted me a hearty thank you from a satisfied customer. I was hooked.

Paid my "doos" with her payment. This forum has been good for sharing my experiences and

tips that you can use to make your work easier. It also led to writing articles for our magazine,

cartooning for you and just plain having fun, (still will not eat peanut butter with jam or jelly :) :).

On occasion, I might have mentioned DuraVar, and you have had fun responding. I love to

pick up the phone and talk to Groop members, so far no one has hung up on me.

With 47 years of working experience,(started sweeping a gun shop at 10), I have finally found

a peer group that asks me questions and responds when I need correction, for which I thank you.

"LOL", (I later found out), stands for "Laughing Out Loud", and when no one responded as to the

meaning, I took it upon myself to use it for "LaRoque Onthe Loose" to sign my stuff.

Mike M., started to call me "The Duke of DuraVar" in his Thread Clips, (I wonder why).

Participation takes time and effort. I find myself printing out some tid-bit of information each

time I read the Groop Mail. The time and effort pays dividends all the time.

The only dumb question is: the question that one does not ask and finds themselves in a jam.

(Or if you are in a jam, the only answer might be to add peanut butter).

This Groop is for those of us that can ask for and expect help.

Thank you all for making this last year one of the best in memory

....Frank LaRoque....

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Monday December 20, 1999

I was alone. And then there was groop.

~RichC.

~~~~~~~~~

No single event, thread, or missal stands out in my mind. I mostly observe and learn, sometimes

just as I scan the groopmail before heading out the door, or just before bedtime.

I'm pleased to be a part of this fascinating network of minds and personalities, happy to be

connected to the wealth of information, opinion, experience that it encompasses.

I am most impressed by the growth of many of the members, not only in knowledge, but in

"worldview", in perspective, in tolerance, in patience. I think it's helping me grow also.

Greg Williams

~~~~~~~~

Daniel writes:

This is my second attempt to write. I dumped the first one because it was so corny. This one

will be also, but I am sending anyway. There is so much that one could say that made this

passed year interesting, and all of it accurate. Singling out any one thing is done at the expense

of all the others: Frank LaRoque.

His participations, selfless and unselfish help, and above all, his tolerance. He is a walking

example of humble nobility. A person of less character would have a head swelled so big that

no hat would fit it, and no neck could keep it upright. But not Frank. Of all the things that I have

learned from him, it is the things that I continue to learn about him that amaze me. Although one

should not compliment a person too much to his face (because it makes a person blush), he

deserves all the praise that can be heaped on him.

That's my two cents.

Also, it does not go without saying that AlanM, the man with the big red STOP button earns my

eternal gratitude for his unending patience (with me), and for having this box of sand in the first place.

I like the Email Group. A lot.

Daniel Shafner

~~~~~~~~

I guess my attitude toward this Groop can best be compared to sitting down each morning in a

nice friendly coffee shop and visiting with all of my friends. No secrets, ego's, put-downs, whining

- just professional banter, inerweaving good solid information with plain friendly jawing.

I look forward to this and hope that you all do to. Have a great holiday!

Cliff in MN

(finally winter - snow and -40 wind chill)

~~~~~~~~

Happy Holidays Groop one and all.

Thank you for all the advice and encouragement. I can't imagine heading out into the garage without

the knowledge that when I screw up (not if) you guys and gals will probably come up with a solution

to save my bacon.

I'm sure I speak for the groop in asking you Alan to please take a few days off in the next few weeks

for yourself and family. You deserve it.

Groop Hug!!!!

Sandy Hatch

Park City Restoration

~~~~~~~

Hey Groop,

A huge thanks to this groop of wonderful folks. In September of 1998 I took the plunge and

became a "professional Refinisher" after five years of dreaming about owning my own business

and doing something I love to do.

The first months were exhilirating (until I realized I needed to wear a respirator in the spray room,

the high went away), since I joined this groop my learning curve has come way down. And I am

already seeing the results in a much higher quality of finish on the furniture I am doing now. I find

myself always wanting to learn more and read more and am no longer content to stick with "the way".

Thanks for expanding my horizons and setting me on the path to becoming a "true" professional refinisher.

Thanks groop, may you all have a wonderful holiday season and a tremendous new year.

DaveR

~~~~~~~

Chap Messer writes:

Hi Ya'll

I have been doing touch-up for a long time and only dabbled in any kind of refinishing.

Being self taught and never having worked with anyone to give me pointers I feel like this

forum is the apprenticeship I never had but always needed.

I sit every morning and listen to the Masters and the teachers talk about our craft and I soak in

all the information I can hold ..... without making my head hurt. <g> Then I go to work and try to

find an excuse to try some of it. (By the way, we've got the best looking rental furniture around

thanks to ya'll.)

I, like everyone else, hold Alan and everyone else that helps to put this Groop on-line everyday

in the highest regards and warmest thanks.

And thanks to all for the help and information you've given.

Grace and Peace to all!

Chap

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Tuesday December 21,1999

Alan Noel writes:

I remember when Alan first called me to see if I would be interested in joining the Groop.

I didn't even own a computer (I believe Alan thought that was amusing) and didn't see any

reason to have one until a friend gave me a Mac to 'play' with. I resisted the idea of owning

a computer because 1, a friend got so hooked on the darn internet it practically ruined his

life and 2, I thought that no way could it ever make me a buck. After all, I was a hands on kinda' guy.

Wrong, way wrong!

Even though I use the Mac mostly for email and Groopin' I honestly can't believe how closed minded

I was. Especially since I was writing a column for PRM and FAXING the darn thing in! Now I know what

a modem is and all the other stuff that was greek to me while I continued to live in the stone age of

personal voice communicators. I almost feel as if I need a pocket protector...

I guess what I'm trying to say is that when Alan (His Webness) took a vacation,

it sure wasn't any fun for me! I felt as if one of my limbs had been severed.

No Frank to marvel at.

No Steve A. to make me smile.

No skinny Italian dude to summarize the mail for the week and somehow make some of it

even more amusing! MikeM, I love ya!

No Daniel for new web sites to check out.

No Deanna giving people a hard time on their birthday.

No JeffJ being so kind as to answer a stupid question like: what kind of wax is found in shellac?

No Bill Giss. Thanks for not leaving.

And last but not least, no more great ideas for future columns!

Alan, the next time you take a vacation, please let us know WAY ahead so's we can all take

a vacation and not miss a thing.

~~~~~~~~~

Bobby D here,

Have been one of the quiet ones for the most part, soaking up knowlege as it were, from those

of you more experienced (IMHO) I have shared some personal contacts with a few of you Jeff J. ..

bought his book , that he so kindly signed which meant a lot to me. I have enjoyed all the antics of

our man "Stevo' whom I admire for his straight forward-"ness" Have been referred to as a straight

shootin , no smoke blowing- sum- a- but did I wish you all a Merry Christmas???

Would have to say of course, my most favorite moments or memories of Groop" came after

I actually per-tis-a-pated in confersation!! Yes I can spell even though I hail from the bluegrass

state, but you get the point...LOL

"They" say Bobby D is dissabled...I say Bull S...can I say that?? Just because some guy runs over

you with a forklift doesn't mean that I have to sit in a rocker, and so be it! (the saga continues) as

my people talk to their people.

My high point of being with this groop... posted a pic of a faceless lion to this bunch late one night...

upon finishing reading my A.M. e-mail got off line and the phone rings...look over at the caller I.D.

LaRoque woodworks...said Hello Frank....the rest as they say is history.... That moment is shared

with the note I got from Chuck, who took time to write me a note, which I shared with the groop ,

since I took the liberty to send it on behalf of all of us...thank you Alan N.

I have wanted for a long time to suggest a photo page for all members to post their mug shots

but just haven't said anything...sorry Steve...

My New Year's res....get over it!!

My .02

Bobby D

by the way I have scanner if anyone needs pics scanned ....be happy to do it

~~~~~~~

Groop:

My Recollection '99 includes an introduction to a groop of professionals that freely give advise

and friendship without ulterior motives. Right now I cannot imagine me learning as much as I have

learned this year without all of your input.

For the past15 years I have been struggling by myself to learn this trade, by bits and pieces, trial

and error, and what advise I could afford to pay for. As a suppliment to this Tuition Free Refinisher's

College I've been going to, I have met some of the neatest personalities, and made some new friends.

Who would ever think that I would roll out of bed at 4:30 every morning to read my email.

You've put some spark back into my life, and for that I am eternally grateful.

Merry Christmas

God Bless you all

Ozzie

~~~~~~~~

Ron Jackson writes:

Ruskin once said that when we fail to praise a man who deserves praise, two sad things happen;

we run a chance of driving him from the right road for want of encouragement, and we deprive

ourselves of one of the very happiest of our privileges, the privilege of rewarding labor that deserves

a reward.

THANK YOU - GROOP

Emerson said "Hitch your wagon to a star." One can see in those six little words the summary of human

achievement, and an everlasting inspiration to the future races of men. From Socrates to Edison, every

forward step taken by mankind through revolving centuries, every advance by humanity towards the

ultimate goal, has been led by some valiant dreamer whose eyes were fixed upon the dawn.

Moses, with dying eyes, saw a star that blazed in the Promised Land, the radiance of an eternal star

led Three Wise Men to the manger in Bethlehem; Columbus pinned his faith in the dawn of a new day;

Kepler, announcing the laws of the unchanging spheres; Newton, watching the apple fall;

Alan M. visualizing the well of knowledge -- each looked beyond, and into the future.

THANK YOU - ALAN

May the Groop always bring a twinkle to your eye.

Ron J

~~~~~~~~~~~~

Wednesday December 22,1999

Y'all,

The only bad day is a day you don't learn something

(or when Alan takes a day off).

Jim Y'all

~~~~~~~~

Every single time I read, I learn. This is, by far, one of the best things I have become involved in

this past year - many thanks to each and every one of you! Looking forward to more "good stuff"

in the coming year(s)!

Happy holidays to all. ~;)

Melinda

~~~~~~~~~

Thursday December 23,1999

Fred McLean writes:

My most memorable event of 1999 was giving a seminar to a group of 21 professional refinishers

on " The Business of Refinishing". One of my suppliers challenged me to do this. Public speaking

has never been my niche and I was extremely nervous but honored to be asked to do so. Twenty-five

years of experience went into this presentation. It lasted 2 hours and covered approximately 20 topics.

I had a blast!

A slip of paper was passed out to everyone to share the dumbest business mistake they had made

in their refinishing career. We had some great answers to this. A young lady from Atlanta (a 3rd

generation professional refinisher) won the prize, a set of Marples Chisels. This was a first for me

and taped into a part of me that gives me great satisfaction in life.

I experience the same satisfaction every day when we share our lives in this groop. I feel your joy and

pain every morning before I begin my day, and often carry ideas to the shop to be used.

Fred Mc.

~~~~~~~~

Being in the groop is continually pushing me to expand my craft. It's always heartening for me to

read how much everyone here loves their work, and is constantly striving to put out the best product

possible. Keeps me honest when I think that Mike Mascelli might decide to take a little trip over here

in his sportscar one day, and catch me doing something bad.

(Those of you on the west coast have to worry about Frank LaRoque.) I'm grateful to be a part of

Alan Marriage's information revolution. I believe that this tool he's given us will help us grow in our

businesses in ways that other craftspeople can only dream about.

Denny Phelps

~~~~~~~~~

Friday December 24, 1999

All:

I've been a part of the largely silent population this past year, preferring to soak/bask in the radiance of

the erudition emanating from the vocal members. I can't come close to measuring the value of Groop to

my professionalism, which, BTW, has a long way to go.

At least I now know what I don't know, but I know where to go to get the answers: Groop.

As our esteemed colleagues down under put it, now I know I'm a 'backyarder'!

Proud of it, too! Nevertheless, I now have aspirations to greater things. Greg Goldberg sold me a Stuhr

rubbing machine (Maybe I'll even use it some day); MikeM (Tack banger, Clipmeister) put me on to an

air stapler (it has been used!); I bought (& use) hide glue (sometimes).

Now, if I could only quit my day job....

Groop on!

Kingsley Greene

Freezin' in Upstate NY

~~~~~~~~~~~

Saturday December 25, 1999

Roger Ballou writes:

This certainly has been a good year for me both in business and personally. I am just finishing my

4th year as a Furniture Medic. Like many of you I have chosen to work alone and love the rewards

which are well worth the long hours. A few months ago I reconsidered my decision to work solo and

concluded once more that I'm best off working by myself. Got to take 4 weeks off for vacation and

still did better than I did in 1998.

Like most of you, I have benefited greatly from the groop. Directly by getting my questions answered

and lots more indirectly by reading every email. I appreciate each and every one of you that has

contributed to the groop. But, I think what I enjoy most is having a connection with others in the same

biz that I otherwise would not have if it wasn't for all of you and, especially, AlanM.

And speaking of him, as I'm writing this at 10:30pm Christmas Eve Alan is pumping out emails

and my version of "You've got mail!" is chiming away.

My Christmas present to myself this year is LASIK surgery on my eyes to correct my farsightedness.

My wife says I should stick two little red bows on my eyebrows. Got them done a week ago and the next

day I was seeing 20/20 in each eye and 20/15 in both eyes together.

I'm excited about the future too. The new shop should be started by mid January and

finished sometime in February.

Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to all.

Roger Ballou

~~~~~~~~~~

Hi everyone,

I have been one of the silent ones for the last part of the year. A lot has happened here in Washington

for us. I have gotten a lot out of the groop and really enjoy getting the emails. I hope that the groop will

continue to grow and prosper. For me it is just good to be alive and able to write this.

I hope everyone has a wonderful Christmas and a grand New Year.

Gary Rathbun

Bare Facts Furniture Stripping

Spokane, Washington

~~~~~~~~~~~~

Sunday December 25,1999

During the heat of the summer, (about 70 degrees ago), we were having trouble in our shop getting the

finish to flow out properly. I posted a general message asking for advice. Come back from a sales call

the next morning and get the message slip with LOL's name and phone number on it. We played phone

tag for awhile but I finally talked to him. Lots of good advice.

Heck, the wife and kid are not this responsive (and they love me, I think?).

From his interaction with the rest of you, he's not just the Duke, He's a Saint on his way to "God-hood".

An unsolicited telephone call from across the country.

Go figure.

Thanks to all of you.

Steven Weber

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

December 27, 1999

Bill Moore writes from Australia:

Hi Groop,

I've snuck over to the shop to read my mail, do a bit of work-- Like you

Stevo-- price lists an' all that!! Reading through recollections '99 and

had to hit th' keys.

I don't really know where to start-- so here goes..

Out here in Oz I felt pretty much isolated in this game, until I went to

the U.S.A. and by accident -- found you guys. I also found PR mag

which I subscribed to and can't seem to get, but that's another story.

I totally agree with the sentiments of other members who say "C'mon --

Tell us about yourself!!" to the quiet ones. Believe me you'll get more out

of this Groop if you start to put in. I can't wait to get back over there to

meet some people who have become my friends.

Alan M -- For his help,advice throughout '99 and for having the foresight to

start the Groop in the first place. Thank You!

Frank LOL -- Well what can I say. I'm happy to call him My Friend. He carves

by remote. He gives totally of Himself and His seemingly endless knowledge

and ability. Thank you!

Stevo -- Another man among men! Angoodlookintoo! Steve (I'm goin' to put

spaces in here mate) You are an inspiration to everyone here--especially to

me. Just the way you have a go at anything and youre quite prepared to help

anybody who wants to do the same. Another friend I believe I've made. Thank

You! AndihopeyernotfreezinyerarseoffinNY.

Daniel Shafner -- Who I have admired since day one for his forthright manner

and honesty in discussion and his thoroughness in researching topics and

sharing his search results with us. Thank You

Mikey Mascelli -- For your input, your Friendship and you valuable time in

compiling CLIPS each week. I've kept a copy without fail each week Mate.

Thank You!

Greg Williams for his help to all you Guys over there. He's not much help to

me as we can't get Mohawk over here. But Thank You a heap for your input.

Mates I could go on forever so don't think I don't luv ya cos i didn't name ya!

I hope that the new year is happy, healthy and prosperous for you all!!!

Bill Moore

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

December 29,1999

Tommy Luckadoo writes:

Let me start by saying that I'm not qualified to carry a pot of warm hide

glue for many of the Groopsters.

But that's changing, and I can thank the Groop for it.

Like most of you, I don't have one particular memory that stands out, other

than the fact that I almost didn't join after my trial period. It would have been

the worst mistake I made all year. Shortly after I started receiving groop mail,

there was, shall we say, a spirited difference of opinions amongst a few. I was

going through the same thing at my church, and really didn't have the stomach

for it. I waited it out, and day by day began to see the value of this forum and

its members.

1999 is the year that I started spread my wings a little as a finisher. I've been

finishing for 10 years or so, and had gotten to the point where I could provide

consistent quality finishes using NC. My touch-up skills were self-taught and

adequate, but that's about it.

Greg Williams told me about Groop at a Mohawk seminar, and I think I've

learned more in the past 6 months than in the past several years combined.

I'm learning about new products and old techniques that I hadn't been exposed

to; about the historical value of certain pieces; about the chemistry of the

products I use (and I have a great deal more respect for the handling of them).

I've gotten needed reminders about wearing a respirator, even for small jobs,

and about hand protection. I've discovered Duravar.

I remember when I started doing radios, I had a mentor to answer all the

questions I had, dumb or not. I never had such a person in finishing, and

therefore didn't have the confidence to try new things for fear of doing

irreperable damage or having to do hours worth of work over again.

Now I've got 100+ folks to fill that void, and for that I am truly thankful.

It's made a big difference.

Happy New Year all.

(Or since I'm from the south, should that be Happy New Year Ya'll.)

(Translation for Steve: Happy New Year Youse Guys.)

(Translation for Bill: HappyNewYearMates.)

Tommy Luckadoo

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

December 30, 1999

Gary and Mary Herbold write:

Many things have happen in the past year and it has gone by way too fast.

After twenty years of service in the Marine Corps, it was time to grow-up

and enter the "real world" and get a "real" job. Instead, we decided to take

the plunge and join the ranks of the self-employed. Here we were taking a

part time woodworking business, setting that to the side for the time being

and jumping into a full time furniture repair and restoration business.

As 1999 raced past, our eyes were opened to how good we had it as a part

of Uncle Sam's Misguided Children and how much fun and frustrating being

in business can be.

The first lesson Mary and I learned was there were many differences between

being on active duty and the "real world". Being paid twice a week was a given,

earning 30 days of paid vacation was a luxury, and every federal holiday meant

we had a four day weekend. Self-employment on the other hand proved if you

were not working you were not making money, any vacation was a dream, and

a weekend was when you did not work on Sunday.

In retrospect, would we have done anything differently? I do not think so.

Undoubtedly, the best and wisest decision we made in the past year was to

participate in the "Groop". I don't know about the rest of you all, but each day

I look forward to reading the posted questions and responses. Every bit of new

information, new ideas, and different approaches to dealing with a problem

piece of furniture or customer has made us that much smarter.

The most important thing you all have shared is the business side of this

profession. Every business question thrown to the forum was answered

frankly and with experience because they have dealt with the same situation

in their career. Your help has made our transition into the real world much easier.

As 1999 ends we look forward to what 2000 will bring.

Mary and I wish the best to you and your families in the New Year.

Thanks again for the help and words of wisdom,

Gary and Mary Herbold